Black Dragons: An Expensive Upgrade
When I first saw the black dragons character unit of Iron fang Pikemen, I was pretty excited. Iron fang pikemen are some of my favourite models ever created. Period. If LtC’s Aaron didnt pick khador up first, I would have. If I had that khador army, it would be all pikemen and spriggans. As you can see, an IFP character unit with some back story appeals to me.
Then the wheels began to turn. The $15.00 blister contains enough shields to upgrade a full unit with officer and standard bearer. That’s 12 models. That’s not such a good deal. I envision the breakdown to be a dollar per shield, 50 cents for the card, and the standard costs $2.50. Iron Fang pikemen are frakkin expensive as far as 10 man units go The cost to purchase the full 10 man unit, plus standard and officer blister is $103 bucks. Then you have to throw down another 15 just to get the upgrade pack. 118 dollars on one unit!! That’s more expensive than my DJ extreme!! It hits me right where it hurts: the wallet.
As the engineer that I am, I hypothetically considered magnetizing a unit of pikemen so I can swap shields and standard when I want to play the black dragons instead of regular IFP, thus saving some cash. This seemed like a great idea at first. When I started to consider that my black dragons would be wearing black or be a completely different livery (as privateer press painted their models) the magnetic idea fell apart. Sadly, you can’t swap shields and standard on models that are a different colour scheme. It doesn’t work that way. I could paint my regular IFP khador red and my Black Dragons a colour that compliments the red. This is one possible solution.
Another solution is this: Don’t paint your models! That way you can swap between the shields and standards all you want. You and your opponent just have to put on your imagination goggles to envision the difference in livery between the two. “Hell yeah those are different! Cant you see the difference in primer I used on those shields!?!” To be completely frank, 9 out of 10 units of iron fang pikemen that I have seen on the table don’t even have their shields glued on because the owner is waiting until the base model is painted before attaching the shields.
The long and short of this release is while it may appear that Privateer Press is trying to enliven an older unit to see more use on the tabletop, it really just screams lazy. Instead of taking the time to sculpt something new*, they did the most basic of conversions/sculpting to make something new for one of their more expensive 10 man units (seriously, I could sculpt those shields and standard in two hours**). Their competitor’s would just throw the alternate parts and card in with the IFP box and let you choose how to build it. Heck! Privateer Press did include alternate parts with their plastic jack kits. Why not here as well?
Unfortunately, in this case, your going to have to shell out 118.00 dollars to get something new. Or go unpainted. Everyone else is doing it.
*I would have liked them to fix the larger IFP problem that most people gripe about: the flimsy pike shafts.
**I’m assuming 3 unique shields and one standard. The rest is casting magic.
I’m not sure I see why these guys are that much more expensive than a full unit of IFP anyway. If you already shelled out the money for the full unit, I think $15 is fine for a character unit. I don’t think that PP does this to make more money (I can’t imagine the profit margin is all that great on 12 metal shield pieces), especially since $15 is the same cost as the warjack upgrade kits and it seems like you’re getting way more material for the same price.
No, I think you’re being overly critical here. Infantry units are expensive, period. Unless they’re plastic like the Man-o-Wars or Fennblades, that much metal is pricey. If you really want to complain, look at the price of Trollblood Runeshapers considering that they’re only 4 points (3 with a pDoomy tier list).
Whitestar333 said this on January 24th, 2012 at 9:06 am
well, hopefully you alt schemed your khador army from the start in which case magnetizing will work… however it doesnt set the unit apart that much from crappy old regular pikemen… which is why this unit is awesome… I agree.. seriously why not sculpt a whole new model at that price point? $118??? i mean i get the jack conversions since the jack chasis are the same.. but things are falling apart here.. or at least throw the bits in for free and let the purchaser choose what to make.. an extra $15 is silly at this point and starts to appear as a sham. why not go resin and have options?
end result… they are totally awesome but i feel like the upgrade kit falls apart when the $$$ to get things becomes a little out of control. will have to meditate on this for a while.
CloudFang said this on January 24th, 2012 at 9:14 am
i guess the ultimate argument is not the pricey ness per se but the fact that if your going to shell out 118 $$ for a full special unit that can no longer be also used as iron fang pikemen… why not create a whole new unit? and buy those new and even better looking models? right? you could then have dragon helms and such.
given pp’s track record im sure they are totally considering the customer to some degree… they have always amazed me with their ability to maintain a great relationship to the consumer.. and my guess is that they dont projet enough sales of these guys to warrant their own production run with new models but i still have to agree that i would much rather pay the 118 if i was getting a wholly newly sculpted unit.
CloudFang said this on January 24th, 2012 at 9:19 am
I totally agree metal units are expensive. No arguement there.
Consider this: In the character of this unit upgrade, to distinguish between these guys and regular old IFP, one would paint these different colors. In doing so, you’ve made a commitment to having Black Dragons as a unit. If you wanted to play IFP, (or if you already had normal IFP) now your shelling out for a new unit. 118 dollars down the drain.
I am being very critical. I would rather have seen a whole new unit instead of a refresher of an existing. Dont get me wrong, if PP makes one of these kits for black ogrun, I’m getting it.
Thundernuts said this on January 24th, 2012 at 9:20 am
Let me rephrase my last statement, If they did an upgrade kit for black ogrun, I’m buying a new unit of black ogrun and making it into the upgraded version of models.
Thundernuts said this on January 24th, 2012 at 9:26 am
It’s also worth considering that the production time for an upgrade kit is much faster than the production time for new sculpts for a full unit. Perhaps this was their way of quickly pumping out a full character unit without going through the lengthy process of coming up with multiple sculpts for models? I’d rather see PP sculptors working on pumping out more new stuff (Wrath warjacks please!). Simply creating some shields and other bits to create a new unit? I think it’s brilliant and allows them to focus on what they do best: coming up with lots of new rules!
Whitestar333 said this on January 24th, 2012 at 9:29 am
fair enough… i also think they come out with a bit too many models per year so im coming from a different perspective whitestar… i dont have the cash to keep up or the brain to wrap my head around so many changes so fast, though it is fantastic! i also believe that actually sculpting is probably a small chunk of the time it takes to release a model.. time probably revolves more around game development.. but i can see our point when trying to release a ton of stuff… oh well im done arguing i think.. on a different note whitestar i like what youve done with the steampunkiness of your blog…. good stuff guy… love the old photos and such… did you create the banner logo for your site? im working on a new one for us at the moment…
ok bud… see ya round.
CloudFang said this on January 24th, 2012 at 9:59 am
I hope I didn’t come off as too argumentative. I certainly understand your concerns (no one wants to pay $100 for a unit) but I really like what they did with this kit and wanted to defend its merits.
Thanks! Yeah, I’m really into steampunk and I figured that it’s an appropriate aesthetic considering my blog mostly discusses Warmachine/Hordes. The logo was originally some letterhead for the New York Steam Power Co. that I modified to fit my blog using GIMP (photoshop alternative).
Whitestar333 said this on January 24th, 2012 at 11:39 am
I think the real problem here isn’t the upgrade kit itself but rather that IFP are an expensive unit on their own. The above comparison of a jack upgrade kit is a good one. Black Ivan is $15 for a claw, a head, and two bumpy shoulder strips, which is a relatively poor deal in my book. What makes Ivan more appealing is that you glue those bits on top of a $35 jack kit (which comes with extra arms and heads to boot). $50 for a character jack (plus extra bits) doesn’t offend me much, even when the upgrade kit is almost 50% of the cost of the kit it modifies.
Compare to the Black Dragon upgrade. $15 for 12 shields and a standard is a pretty good deal on its own, and even better when compared to the rest of the PP range. But because IFP are a $100 unit (plus the cost of brass rods and/or special storage if you go those routes) the total cost is more than twice what it is for Black Ivan, even though the Black Dragon kit itself is ~15% of the “kit” it modifies and comes with a lot more material for your money.
Imagine if IFP came in plastic and a unit was $50 but would still require the $20 metal UA. Would that change your mind? The Black Dragon unit would still be more expensive than Black Ivan ($85 vs $50), but the difference wouldn’t be as drastic. What keeps me away from IFP is the pikes; I just don’t want to deal with all the drilling and rodding to make a solid unit. Cost is a factor, but a smaller one. Of course your mileage may vary.
The real benefit of the Black Dragons is one I’ve seen bandied about on the PP forums: adding variety without bloat. Alternate UAs and WAs can allow existing units to fill new roles without adding whole new units to the game, and ideally without requiring you to buy a second set of the same models. This doesn’t work out so well with the Black Dragons because they have a unique color scheme (in the fluff at least), but there’s no reason your Black Dragons can’t be red or green or lilac. Should my wildest dreams come true in the form of plastic IFP I’d have no problems magnetizing the appropriate parts and painting the IFP in my usual 5th Border Legion scheme, probably making the bottom chevronish bit of the shield red and the rest green, and then paint the Black Dragon shields in the same scheme except swapping the red for black. I might even leave the whole shield scheme the same and just paint the dragon on the shield black. Point being here that just because you might need to have certain bits on your models to have them be Black Dragons doesn’t mean you have to paint the unit in the studio scheme or any different from your other IFP models.
Didn’t quite intend to drop a huge wall of text here, but these things happen sometimes. Occupational hazard.
Demitra said this on January 26th, 2012 at 3:20 pm
Your right on Demitra. The cost of the IFP unit is the bothersome point. If IFP were cheaper, I wouldnt have made this post.
If you already own a painted unit of IFP and wanted this upgrade, your choices are either 1) buy a new IFP unit or 2) bastardize the rules and do some sort of proxy/partial legit model conversion to get it done. I feel bad for the purist khador fan that wants to get this unit (and keep his current IFP) and has to shell out $120 to do so.
I also think that very seldom will I ever see a fully converted unit of black dragons on the table top. It’ll probably always be some partial combo of Black dragon officer and standard with regular IFP, which isnt wysiwyg. If provateers goal was to see full black dragon squads on the table, this was not the way to achieve it.
Question: If you owned a unit of painted IFP, and this upgrade pack came out, what would you do?
I agree its a cool way of introducing something new without making a completely different unit that is mostly the same but slightly different. However, imho the differentiating factor shouldn’t be color scheme ie BLACK Dragons.
If plastic IFP come out, I’ll make a Black Dragon army.
thundernuts said this on January 27th, 2012 at 3:39 pm
meh… i think i agree that if i had khador i would not paint the models black either… just my way of never copying standard colors… i would only paint the dragons on the shields black… and magnetize the weewee out of them… thus having both units and thus ending this argument.
on second thought if they cam out with a black dragon nyss swordsmen attachment.. i would definitely buy a whole new unit + ua + upgrade and paint them different from both my swordsmen, pp’s swordsmen, and pp’s black dragon swordsmen…
i guess my new reasoning for not likeing the whole crazy $$ upgrade thing really is my deep seeded hate for the motherland… does this have anything to do with MY mother? maybe this is some sort of fruedian trama..
maybe ive been wanting to play a studio scheme khador army my whole life but because my mom made me clean my room ive been stuck with orange blight?
and maybe this is the reason im friends with laaronml because he plays khador and maybe i really just wish i was him?
and maybe……..
cloudfang said this on January 27th, 2012 at 4:18 pm
Being “stuck” with orange blight doesn’t sound too bad to me.
Demitra said this on January 27th, 2012 at 10:08 pm
Premature posting. The ladies say not to worry, that it happens to all the guys, but I still feel the shame. I blame a mysterious keyboard shortcut.
The rest of that reply was supposed to say that there’s a new ruling afoot about the Black Dragons in a tournament setting. Apparently the deciding factor is what, if any, UA you use. Black Dragon UA, complete with shields and banner, means the IFP are Black Dragons, otherwise they’re regular IFP. No need to replace the shields on all of them, or paint up a new unit, or even get another unit at all.
Of course this doesn’t address the issue where 10 of your IFP are (in theory) red and the UA is black, but if your primary goal is to be able to use a single set of IFP models as either regular IFP or Black Dragons then you’ll now be able to do that.
Demitra said this on January 27th, 2012 at 10:12 pm
Well, problem solved then! I mean the tourney rulling, not your premature posting. Thats a personal issue and I’ve had marginal dealings with that. I got it right once and had a baby as a result.
Back to IFP, that was my beefstick with the tourney situation! I can sleep better now.
P.S. I am secretly jealous of Aaron and his khador. Its a love-hate thing. Its my albatross. But I think he is jealous of me and my cryx. After all, he did buy that battlebox…
Thundernuts said this on January 29th, 2012 at 9:09 am